OneAndOneIs2

hehe.. yup I'm the first.. Nice read. I've started off with Ubuntu a few months back. Knew pretty much what you were talking about.. Putting it philosophically ..

"It isnt about the destination.. its about the ride!"

Mail back
id: anilgulecha
mail i use: gmail.com

Wonderful. Great read. I will be sending this to the people who want to "Try" linux and want me to hold their hand the whole way.. heh.

Great job :)

The only error i caught:
"...user-friendly interface ever created, *that* that's great."
and in case you want to cut and paste :p
"...user-friendly interface ever created, then that's great."

I really liked the article. People that know what Linux is and that are always saying that I should run Windows when I have a configuration problem in my Linux box will sure listen about this page...

NOTE: I read the article using IE 7 :S ... that's a wierd coincidence.

Great reading. Great job. I've tried redhat, dsl, suse, ubuntu, kubuntu, debian, just about everything else and I'm pretty sure I'm staying with Mepis. I've been strictly on Linux for almost a year and love it. Do I have it all figured out. No, but the options and the software availability are so enormous - I don't think you would ever be done setting up. I just got tired of all the protection software that would kill the resources of your computer so you wouldn't get whatever virus, spyware, adware, etc that comes along with windoze

That was beautiful...hehe. I've been a longtime Windows user, and was curious to see what Linux was all about. I've gone back and forth between various distros of Linux as well as Windows. Unfortunately, because I am a hardcore PC Gamer, I doubt that Linux will ever be my sole OS. However, since I'm going to be taking some classes regarding programming/computer science/etc. I was also trying to install Linux in a way that allowed me to game/do the familar stuff on Windows, yet allowed me to, little-by-little, learn about Linux. I think your article is an excellent primer for anyone who is (like myself) a tremendous n00b to all things Linux. Rock on brother, rock on...

Thanks for that. I love LEGO! just missing the intsructions at the moment. need to know what to do if my system won't install the base system (using ubuntu). any ideas? thanks (feel free to use my e-mail if you wanna - tithij@hotmail.com)

Excellent article. Very well thought-out and articulated. I only caught one error: near the end you write "Linux Torvalds" -- it should be Linus.

P.s. I got here from Atari's forums - I hope many others get a chance to read this well-written work.

Thanks for the article, was a great read.

I've enjoyed and mangled my computer(s) with linux now for almost 10 years. I've loved every exasperating minute!

I ended up here, googling for an explanation on syntax for chmod, specifically how to change folder permissions... and found this rant:
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-newbie/59661-incredibly-frustrated-noob.html
Read it and was just about to sign up and toss in my 2¢... replace laptop with desktop, Suse with Ubuntu, mp3 with MythTv, and ad a zero to all the op's time estimates and you have my story, when I followed the link in your sig.
Your dissertation is a good read but you're preaching to the choir. I went into this (mythtv) project fully understanding the drawbacks (and benifits) of open source software.
Sure, I could have plunked down some $$$, installed XP mce and been running in an hour.
But where's the fun in that? I've been working with PC's for long enough that they're boring to work on any more.
... I would like to get this PVR going before senility sets in though.
Now, what was I googling when I detoured here?
Mind if I link to this? I know some other groups who would benefit from reading it.

Most claims were good, given you are preaching to the choir. Getting more users would probably help getting more volunteers in the different projects, so I digress that user- (yes, actually, newbie-) friendliness is of value to the (probably yes, linux-savvy) majority of the linux community. Just look at the frequency of "How you can help" requests on the FOSS websites.
And for the case of vi, it IS a bad idea to not protect newbies from having to reboot their system when they cannot figure out how to exit an application. Some small patches to vi could enable for instance repeated pressing of Esc, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Q, (on terminals supporting these keys) or even Ctrl-W or Alt-F4 to close the application. How about F1 to lauch a sub-process showing the man-pages or other newbie-readable help information? There could also be a good idea to collect some common newbie traps in a web course, which could explain how to get of of vi, and that q is usable for escaping several text-applications, while Ctrl-Q or W is used in many of the graphical ones. Also, having the gui-version as the default application could be a good idea.

Say, that most distributions (except maybe gentoo and slackware) would make those more newbie-safe improvements the default, and supply a script that turns all newbie-adjustments back to old-style when a savvy user comes along. It could be as easy as some command line paramenters activated by aliases included in your login scripts! (The only problem is the needed work to maintain the stuff. For mostly "finished" applications like vi I guess the maintenance work would be low enough to be worth it, considering the minority of vi-newbies it would help.)

Similar arguments go for other linux software with steep learning curve. I am truly grateful to all those developers, but I'm also truly unhappy with the apparent stubbornness in refusing non-invasive user-friendliness. I've wasted much time searching for functionality in Emacs that could have been "documented" by putting it even in a sub-sub-menu to avoid cluttering the main menus. Sometimes I discover a feature by tapping some keys by mistake, and it makes me happy -- while mistakes should usually be a nuisance.

To generalize/"analogize":
Distributing the lego as an assembled car makes it quite easier to learn how things fit together, and for the linux-savvy taking it apart (analoguous, I guess, to some editing in /etc and some init-scripts) shouldn't be that much of a hassle.

Your opinion in the article comes through as "by design me and the majority of linux(-savvy) users prefer NOT to have a menu-bar that helps new users find keyboard shortcuts by looking in menus". That said, I do beleive many users stop at that and never learn shortcuts. In my own case, I learn in cycles with a few shortcuts at a time. Unless there would be a tutorial that prioritize what to learn similarly to me (or one I can easily search), the second best is to document features by associating them to a menu where I can 1) find that the feature I wish for exists, 2) learn of possible short-cuts in case I need the same feature again in the near future.

In my generation, probably many computer-users are used to think "graphically" and with current input devices this makes us work slower in deleting/cutting the next five words (the vi example: d5w). The fact that many people also learn graphically would support the case for having menu bars in applications.
If you also happened to criticise menu-bar items for lacking short-cut keys, that is generally solved by letting the user use a "secondary shortcut" like this: Alt-F to reach a File-menu, and then P for Print. I'm amazed at how often I find a document-editing application lacking such basic functionality for keyboard short cuts. I remember the translating application poEdit for one example that seemed (and from screenshots of 1.20, still seems) to be designed for mouse-navigation only. I tried at that time to show the maintainer some easy fixes, and some keyboard shortcuts got added in CVS, but then vanished again a version or two later. Since half my contribution survived, I didn't investigate or bitch. Maybe the lost changes was either a mistake, or someone disliked my suggestions (which I had verified to follow the KDE guidelines) and decided "nothing is better than something".

Should be Linus not Linux Torvalds, as Brion Swanson already pointed out. Other than that, it was good.

Don't know what everyone is talking about, Windows virus this, Windows virus that. Seems like I've been infected for the last nine years with one big contagious virus called Linux. I caution you all: It's chronic.

yes windows is very different from linux, i used to use windows xp for 4 years got sick of useing it (got bord)
so i got linux at first i had no clue on how to use it
now (2 days later) i still have no clue on how to use
(sep. installing .exe files useing WINE) what you say is very true. my dad is a windows user (he had linux for 10 min before getting rid of it) he just could not use linux(i told him to learn how but he's lazy and used to windows) i on the other hand is trying to learn

i still need to find help if you (or anyone) knowwhere to find a linux help site email me at systemofadownmaster@yahoo.com

This article is so helpful for me to reply the "newers". Thank you very much. ллÄ㣡

I collect OSes. I have 4 OSes on my 2 computers right now, and when I get another PC, I will keep the old ones and put the hottest OS on the new one and add another one to the older ones. I was a mainframe terminal user before GUIs were common (1977) and I like knowing multiple languages, n'est pas? Plainly not the guy to write the lovely Lin is not Win article you have written. Thank you for your lovely defense of the Linux (FOSS) philosophy. I especially like the image of community as opposed to the commercial marketplace. This is rather similar to what is suggested as a starting place for comprehending religious practices cross-culturally.

In the document you state:

"As a simple example, consider driver upgrades: one typically upgrades a hardware driver on Windows by going to the manufacturer's website and downloading the new driver; whereas in Linux you upgrade the kernel."

This is not entirely true. In Linux you 'may' have to upgrade the kernel 'if-and-only-if' the driver in question was hard linked. Most hooks for the various hardware drivers provide the option to build the kernel with dynamically loaded modules. If your kernel is so built (and most common distros are), changing a driver is as simple as changing a setting in a configuration file - which does not require a kernel upgrade/rebuild.

For example, I standardized my NICs to Linksys cards which use the Tulip driver. I just had to make a change in one file to enable the new driver. I didn't have to load any software at all - because the driver was already in place from the initial installation (and most are). I would say this is on par, if not better than Windows.

Loved the article.
I am an IT Manager / Microsoft Systems

Just built a box to take linux for a test ride.
Very impressed, but it showed me how little i know...lol

Mind you, i never expected it to be the same. I had read a bit before taking the pluge.

Many thanks
Robert

Very nice read! Being one who recently made the switch to linux, I can tell you that life was hard until I came to the realizations that you speak of. It takes some time for a user to abandon techniques and assumptions that they've held on to during their relationship with computers. Once you accept that it's GOING TO BE DIFFERENT, it's like a breath of fresh air. It's OK that it's different, and sometimes it's even better. Either way, you're just learning something new and it takes some time.

Thanks so much for the eloquent write-up!

thanks,
json

great work dude,
I enjoyed it and actually read it most of it which is amazing for me :D
Its good to see a linux user trying succeding for the most part to write a pro and con on windows/linux.Im increasingly getting fed up with linux and windows users acting like its some kind of war.(shutup and grow up)

Subproblem #3a: There is a culture

As a reminder of what the subproblem deals with:
"The biggest cause of friction tends to be in the online interactions: A "3a" user new to Linux asks for help with a problem he's having. When he doesn't get that help at what he considers an acceptable rate, he starts complaining and demanding more help. Because that's what he's used to doing with paid-for tech support."

The problem here is that anyone who doesn't choose an OS based on ideology will choose it based on what seems to be the superior product for their purposes. If you're not a computer enthusiast, you don't WANT to be part of a community. You want the perks that come with, for example, Windows. You want the tech support, you want the documentation, you want the readily available drivers. You want to be able to boot the computer when you get it, find it pre-installed with some type of Windows and proceed to install your new-found favourite spyware-infested desktop helpers, toolbars and what have you.

You talk about community and patience, most people want their computer to just work now, and if they can't get that in the Linux world, why bother with it when they can use Windows. Your proposed suggestion to the problem is to remember you're not dealing with a party who owes you anything, but the real solution most people will take is simpler: they just won't use Linux.

Just a minor point: as far as Boolean logic would go, one and one is one, not two; clearly, you should immediately change your site's name to reflect this. :-) (Yes, I am kidding!)

Thank-you for an article that says a lot that many of us feel but would not be able to put into words or, if we did put it into words, mainstream people would not understand. This is probably the best explanation of a computer nerd (of the free software variety) to people not part of the computer nerd community.

(If you're wondering: Slackware 9.1 and 10.2.)

Having gotten tired of what I call "WINHELL", I was looking for something a little bit better that I could actually tailor to my needs. A family member recommended I look into Ubuntu linux as a possible "try before you buy" OS (Never mind that it's actually free, but the live cd gives it this flavor). After checking it out and doing a lot of online reading, It is now installed on my machine.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your article. I'm the kind of person that likes to "take it apart and see how it works".

Being a total noob in the Linux world does have it's ad/dis advantages. The learning curve might be steep, but then climbing Mt Everest isn't without it's risks and rewards.

Thank you for a well written (IMHO) look into the world of Win/Lin!

charlie

Wrong article, I know, but I'm putting it here anyway:

"A swap partition. The same size as your PC's RAM. The old rule of thumb of double is outdated. These days, swap is almost unused, but it's good to have some. It should be the first partition you make, as this puts it in the center of the hard drive where read/write times are fastest."

I'm sure you meant creating the partition first puts it at the edge of the disc (because it does), where read/write speeds are fastest (because they are). Otherwise good article :)

really a very good article,I learned a lot from it !

thanks a thousand,^_^

Well said, this really puts things in perspective. Definitely right about over-zealous Linux users. "Oh, you're still using Windoze" etc. Although I too now find myself wanting to share my new-found knowledge with uninitiated friends.
But I have to say Google has been a pain in this process, 10,000 unrelated hits for one simple question.
Still, I turn to it first, and, after a few days chasing leads, turn to mailing lists.

thanks for writing an excellent article on the dynamics of the windows/linux worlds. I've been using Linux for a long time now and have enjoyed the experience of relearning the linux OS.

There have been several people who have criticized Linux users just because it doesn't hold up to their standards. Finally, there is an article that clears up the misconceptions. I will definitely share this article to those with such misconceptions.

Thanks again for such a articulate description of the situation.:)

bharat211

"No word is true until it is eaten." - 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 27

This treatise on Linux spoke to my soul! At long last...the logic behind the frustration makes sense. I can move on now and plunge into Linux and know why. Thankyou, thankyou.

I really like this article. I have been promoting Linux for a while now, but when I first tried Linux I found the "Community" really ready to flame anyone who mentioned the word windows in their forums.

Since then, I really feel the community has grown up , and is very willing to help a person get over their windoze addiction. This has lead me to write my own blog on being a Linux n00b, and switch from windows to Mepis.

That being said, I have tried many distos, and find that for me the ones that are an all in one solution (similar to windows), made my transition much easier. And I have found that Google, and the forums for the different distros, almost always has the answer to any issue I may have encountered.

Keep up the good work, but don't try to stop people from switching to Linux because of this article, the more we have change over, the better Linux and FOSS can get.

Great article. I cannot think about anyone saying about linux that it's bad. I didn't expect that something should be alvays out of box, and i like anyone who is a programmist. I will be programmist too, but it never ends with a program :(.

Linux Torvalds :O !! Did you mean Linus? I'm critical, what can I say?

Josh

Excellent article! You really addressed a lot of the points I think are important for new users to understand, and to avoid possible frustration.

Many people point to your article as an argument for the idea that "Linux doesn't need to be exactly like Windows." As you point out, there are people who like the level of control they have with Linux and like the complicated shortcuts of emacs / VI. There should be (and are) Linuxes for them. But there should also be a "Linux" for the long-time Windows users who want only a few things:

1. Slightly more secure than Windows

2. Almost all tasks are performed exactly like windows - I don't include software installation or drivers in this, because those are things that are done only once. What matters is that day-to-day usage requires no change from what the user knows.

3. Free as in beer, legally

Linux is a flexible base for many kinds of operating systems. It can have a gui, or not. It can be a desktop, or a server.
In your conclusion (and in your title), you imply that there can never be a Linux that works almost exactly like windows, so people can use their existing skills without relearning. There are many people who are absolutely unwilling to learn or spend any time learning. There is room in the market for a Windows clone for them, so they can stop being pirates, or so they can survive now that there are no more security patches for Windows 98. Some Linux users may not like it, that is fine. But there is demand in the marketplace for it (people pay money for Windows, that proves that people would enjoy a free clone). And it is technically possible.

You claim it can never happen, but I and the many other people who have no time or desire to learn and no money to buy new versions of Windows desperately hope that it will happen.

Also, if a real Windows-workalike was made, I think you would find it would end up with much more market share than your learning-required Linuxes. Right now Linux appears to be 1-2% of the desktop market or so. About 10% of the Windows users I know have pirated copies, and another 10% have Windows 98 - many of them are in a panic because it has no more security updates. If they could use a legal clone that worked like Windows, I think many of them would switch even if it didn't run games.

Lavan: If what you want is open-source Windows, don't waste time by trying to pervert Linux into being something it was never intended to be.

Go to the ReactOS website & find out how you can support their sterling work. They intend to make an open-source implementation of the win32 API, and that's exactly what you're after.

Linux is not a Windows clone, it never will be. ReactOS is.

'Nuff said.

yep, the more support ReactOS gets the better for all those win98 people living in purgatory. lol.

Seriously, I havent looked, but if the ReactOS kernel has IPchains or IPtables(which ever is ubuntu)...then it changes my stance....

Heh, I quite enjoyed your article. You made a lot of really good points, and inspired me to stop being so uptight about Linux, and simply ignore it. As I am currently attending university, there is an extremely high amount of pro-free software pressure everywhere. However, I have always found working on Windows to be more productive, for me at least. As a games programmer, Windows simply provides the superior platform, being host to numerous APIs, tools and programs that I am loath to forsake. This has typically earned me a fair amount of flak from the Linux gurus. Anyway, you said it best. Linux ISN'T trying to take over the market, so I really don't need to be constantly defending Windows. I can simply use it, and that can be that. It's about using the best operating system for each user, no?

A very good article!

While I agree with all of the points you have made I would just say that in my opinion Linux developers do have a vested interest in making it more appealable to a larger audience.

If more people move to Linux then it becomes a more appealing platform to develop on. This results in more developers working with Linux and so the number of developers improving the apps you use and may result in quicker development of new features, better support and may contribute in ways that you are unable to.

Of course I imaging that this is very much a secondary objective of a Linux developer but it may still influence development and adoption of Linux...

Just a fast thought about this artical and comments all after.. I didn't get any sleep so far (awake for 17 hours) either so it may be a bit off.

Here's my thought.
If say more and more people turn to linux then more and more comapnies and people make more programs for linux, windows would go under, mac's would go under. Not only them but alot of companies who needs them OS's. Microsoft then be on linux? And Apple's on Linux? If there is soo much open source games and programs then most companies probable will die out after also. The whole world will be then on linux and free software world wide. The only jobs for computers would be only hardware.

Now think of this. Where soooo many people would be loseing their software jobs then the goverment would step in and stop linux growing communities. So in the end who would win? The goverment want people working and making money. Actually the goverment needs people to make money for the goverment to stay alive. humm maybe I said that wrong. The goverment needs your working money from taxes to stay alive to keep control.

This may turn into a world civil war somehow. lol

"a bit off" may be an understatement, Ludwig. Free Software is not a black hole for money: Linux in particular is a huge cash cow.

Software jobs would still exist, because people would still need software written for them. There are thousands of people paid to develop free software already.

When people say that there's no money to be made from Linux, here's a simple & obvious rebuttal: In 2001, IBM invested one BILLION dollars in Linux.

In less than a year, reports claimed that they'd made their money back, and they confirmed it in 2003.

If IBM can make more than a billion a year in profit, how can Linux be considered anti-corporate, exactly?

It's been a long time since an article of that length has held my attention (no I'm not ADHD).

It was a great read and very much what I needed to see as someone considering the move.

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to edjumacate the wanna-be Linux users like me. I'm gonna brave the Linux waters just as soon as I've figured out how to get started :D

As Emmett said "Rock on brother, rock on..."

A really excellent article that puts the points across very well. Just one question - I'm intrigued by the suggestion that it might be argued that KDE is commercial - it has the same license terms as GNOME and the big commercial Linux efforts (i.e. Redhat/Novell/IBM) all push Gnome so I don't see the argument for KDE being commercial. QT is commercial, but KDE uses QT under GPL and useage of KDE does not imply the selling of more QT licenses (well, perhaps, but only in as much as useage of GNOME might imply more sales of licenses for commercial apps using GTK). I don't have any great agenda here - I've used both KDE and GNOME and have favourite apps in GTK and QT for different things, I'm just interested in what your viewpoint is on this.

Some might argue that KDE is commercial, but I'm not one of them.

The thinking behind that comment, however: Whilst both KDE and QT are free software by any definition, QT is also a proprietary, commercial product. And KDE is arguably the single biggest showcase of QT's capabilities.

"If KDE didn't exist, it would be necessary for Trolltech to invent it", and all that sort of thing. KDE is not itself a commercial product, but there are certainly vested commercial interests backing it.

wow, excellent article; it realy sheds light on the whole OS paradox (particulary the user-friendly section). keep it up man.

Hi - and thank you for the brilliant article. I came across your article thanks to the tread on Ubuntu Forum. I am a rather "fresh" Linux convert - using exclusively Linux for half a year now.
...my adult son has recommended Ubuntu to me about a year ago - but first thing he asked me before was - "Why do you want to change, mom?"
It was difficult question and I found an answer on your site - for the first: I want to drive "my car", for the second: I like "my car" to do what I want, and last but not least: for the sake of free choice - the only freedom we really have.
Thank you for clarifying my own motives to myself! Keep up writing - it gives a lot to others!
With many friendly regards,
tami
PS. Linux is not more frustrating than other new things you learn - what's wonderful in the case of Ubuntu and other free OS (I tried Kanotix before) is that you are never left alone with your frustration...

Brilliant article! Subtle, Cynical and to the point! I like it!

Excactly like lego! I like lego...

I came accross your article because I'm about to install suse again... this time on a machine with un-backed-up content that should not be exposed to risks (anything i do on a pc is risky..i'm a forgetful-newby). I think it's an addiction..

someday we'll get there (don't know where?), but we'll know when we get there..

Rock-On!!!

I agree with everyone else, great article. i have now found myself thinking very differently about "what it is i want" from an operating system. and although as you said in your article, "linux is by Geeks for geeks", i believe these "Geeks" are by their very nature, the people who innovate our computerised world. they are "free thinkers" and must accept that where they lead, others (non Geeks) will follow. i am not suggesting that the "Geeks" have to pander to the followers every need, but what the "Geeks" have created is a wonderful alternative to commercial operating systems. interest in linux is growing at an exponential rate. the "Geeks" improve it at an ever increasing rate. result more interest from the followers! linux is evolving, it has a lot of potential. but whatever your view, the future is all about ease of use, and by the "future" i mean in all things, not just computing. getting around your chosen operating system should be as simple as "abc,123", and whether a "Geek" or not! the true holy grail of an operating system is to communicate between the hardware and software applications and the user in a 1,stable 2,reliable and 3,simple and intuitive way. I remember the old dos days, endless typing of commands, one character wrong and nothing happened or some error in syntax argh! hard work. then came gui, and a system of windows and menus. ah ha a step forward! now instead of sitting there typing "c:\games\quake2.exe" and worrying whether i have the syntax correct, i just click a mouse button a few times and i have quake2 running, this is quicker more reliable and easier, ie: progress its evolution, its the future, for all the follower's and "geeks" alike! its happening everywhere you look, in everything you look at! so some purist keyboard fanatics insist its the only way to be (a slave to the keyboard) i vote for the "star trek" vision, of a completely vocal interactive computer system, its the future and its coming, and coming a lot sooner than we currently think, i vote for innovation and creation, thinking of whats to come and not what has passed. i recall the scene from star trek 4, when scotty looks down at the computer screen and says "computer" and gets no response then he spots the keyboard and says "ah a keyboard, how Quaint" support your local "geek" for they are the future! it is the "Geeks" that will bring this future to all of us, and for me it can't come quickly enough! lol

Fine thoughts, should be read by the "geeks" also.
Like many others I never made any "conversion" to linux - I merely got into it along with networking/managing/registry-fiddling in Win. I like the robustness of a streamlined Linux server box, controlled via Webmin or similar, at home it's Linux desktop - but workplace desktop applications are mostly Win.
So it can not be called "conversion", it's rather "cohabitation".
"Geeks" on both sides have the same annoying habits; leaving the filesystem cluttered with all kinds of files/folders, the kind that lets you think about a room in a dormitory - after the party...
My wish for linux; a nice cleaning team separating config files, applications, kernel, user data, user files etc, simplifying the structure thus making it easier for the occational maintainer to find/edit/backup files and moving around in the fs-tree. Doing it with the attitude described in the article could do good to both "geeks" and "fiddlers".
And I'd like to see more of balanced, informative writing like in this article, as opposed to any Lin/Mac/Win religious flaming seen on many blogs/mailinglists.
Thanks.

Nice write up on a few things that did not really occur to me. Being a geek it can be difficult to remember what it was like to *NOT* know how to do things on a computer (Do you remember *NOT* knowing how to read? :)

One thought that occurred to me while reading was that FOSS software is not actually free...it requires *TIME* to learn. For folks with an interest or motivation (read *NO* $$$) FOSS can be a solution when the alternative is no solution. For the folks that would rather just throw money at the problem I'm sure there are folks (Hi Bill, Hi Steve) that are willing to take it.

The best advice IMHO appears at the end of the article. Many times knowing what question to ask is more important than knowing the answer. The question "What do you want out of your OS?" is an *EXCELLENT* question...and one that many folks may not even think to ask.

*BRAVO* Good Sir...your article made it on to my short list of bookmarks. Thank you for your efforts. I, for one, enjoyed my time reading.

I really enjoyed the article. A few nits/comments:

- "Newcomers complain about the existence of what the established users consider to be fundamental features, and resent having the read a manual to get something working."

s/having the/having to/

- "However, there is an important difference between a FOSS programmer and most commercial software writers:"

s/FOSS/Linux/ as you mention at the top "Linux" is the catchall term you will use.

- "So when somebody comes to vi and finds that it's "d" to cut, and "p" to paste, it's not considered friendly: It's not what anybody is used to."

Really!?! Thanks. I've been using Linux since '93, and I thought cut+paste in vi was [n]yy+P. Woohoo!

- "But nobody out there thinks that all bicycles should be sold with training wheels."

Excellent argument.

- "However, sharks evolved from fish, while dolphins evolved from a land-based quadrupedal mammal of some sort. The reason they have very similar overall appearances is that they both evolved to be as efficient as possible at living within a marine environment."

Again.

- "Linux is not interested in market share. Linux does not have customers. Linux does not have shareholders, or a responsibility to the bottom line. Linux was not created to make money. Linux does not have the goal of being the most popular and widespread OS on the planet."

"World domination, fast." Sorry. :-)

- "They really don't care if it gets good enough to make it onto your desktop, so long as it stays good enough to remain on theirs."

Bravo.

- "The highly-vocal MS-haters, pro-Linux zealots, and money-making FOSS purveyors might be loud, but they're still minorities."

I offer no apologies for being a MS-hater, and a pro-Free Software zealot. Microsoft sells crappy software, as anyone running a botnet can tell you.

Nice article, thanks.

Awesome!

It was very helpfully for me!

I've pointed quite a few people at this article in the past few months, and just re-read it myself. I understand what's being said, because I've spent the last 3 years running various GNU-Linux OSs.
I still get anti-linux comments from the more vocal members of the Microsoft camps. Both pro, and anti camps seem to have either a fear, or hatred of the unknown. I wonder how many of them realize they sound ignorant. Same goes for the GNU-Linux users who spout vehement anti-Microsoft garbage.
Use whatever you're happy with, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

brilliant, and you covered everything I thought of. I will be showing this to many people ;-)

I'm a user that this rant might have been directed at had I not stumbled upon it myself. This was excellent for me, as I know if I had tried Linux before reading it I would have expected merely a "better Windows". Thanks so much!

This is really an excellent article
Now, iam prepared to debunk many of my friends' comments against Linux

This is a VERY popular article... I've been seeing it posted in new Linux user forums all over the place for a while now.

The attention is well deserved. It is perhaps the best written and most informative "new Linux user" article I've seen yet, and is just as valuable to the regular Linux user.

Great article. :) Keep up the good work.

Hey that was an awesome read. I'm 15 and grew up with macs and only recently started using windows. Im new to the world of Linux and Im thinking of starting to use it. The article helped put things in perspective for me.
Thanks
raj1991@gmail.com

Nice article, i liked.

Great read. I did have a few minor comments: in #3a, don't use """A "3a" user""", just use user. in #3b, don't use "group 1" and "group 2", but use "one group", "other group". in #5a: "Familar is friendly" should read "Familiar is friendly". in #6: "An argument people often make when they find that Linux isn't the Windows clone they wanted is to insist that this is what Linux has been (or should have been) attempting to be since it was created, and that people who don't recognise this and help to make Linux more Windows-like are in the wrong." would be clearer by adding a second don't, like so: "An argument people often make when they find that Linux isn't the Windows clone they wanted is to insist that this is what Linux has been (or should have been) attempting to be since it was created, and that people who don't recognise this and don't help to make Linux more Windows-like are in the wrong."

Dang, I am using linux fulltime for about 1,5 month now, and this is the best article I have read about it!

Just becouse its sooo true :)

I just wasted a lot of time reading a few of the introductory "read this first" threads on linuxforum.org, and the last one about windows vs motorcycles, or basketballs vs oranges, whatever it was. At the bottom it says if I have any feedback to leave it here, and I do.

First of all why have a forum about linux, and then post a bunch of useless (being nice here) "read this first" threads that have absolutely nothing with the use, usefulness or with getting started using linux.

You wasted my time, and everyone else's time to has bothered to read the threads that you posted there to "read first", when you could just as well -- if you had any useful knowledge about it -- posted information about getting started with the use some or at least one of the various linux distributions.

As it takes time to learn how to use linux, and I as everyone has has limited time, I would rather conserve mine thank you very much by reading and/or listening to someone who has something useful to say. I am very disappointed that I bothered to read your threads and won't make that mistake again.

You must have a lot to offer, to those who think exactly the way you do. There are probably a lot of people who agree with you. At least those who see fit to stay on linuxforums. I wonder how many have come there and then not remained, or been turned off to linux because of all the negative whining and complaining.

Of what I have read about linux so far, there are as many ways to use linux as users. Not everyone uses linux the same way, and not everyone fits in the same little box. Not everyone who doesn't use linux is all the same either. I'm probably a lot different from the average windows geek than you are and in fact I guarantee that I am.

I have been attracted from reading the various philosophies (some of them, not yours) about linux. The ones that have attracted me are very much like my own. When I read these, I decided immediately that linux is for me. That is the reason I've decided to use linux. And it is my responsibility to do this. My decision. Which doesn't have anything to do what you or anyone else thinks about it.

There are plenty of people using linux, from what I've seen so far, that like the basic philosophy and that is quite fine with me, as I like it too.

All the best.

Johnlvs2run, why are you wasting our time? I don't want to know about your opinion about the article. I want you to improve the article and not get paid for it!

The newbie article has excellent value for those of us who are quite experienced in the ways of Microsoft. I'm a coder and unlike the challenge placed in the article, I actually DO use Microsoft Word. A lot. I would admit that I certainly don't use more than 10% of the total functionality of the product, but I use it because my customers have it and as a coder, I must be suitably proficient in the tools my customers use. For anyone to knock a product that has such pervasive usefulness across the world only shows ignorance and a bit of NIH syndrome.

I've just completed installing Suse 10.1 several times on various computers just as practice activities, always using the default "no brainer" responses to on-screen questions. I wanted to find out (a) how long it took, (b) how easy it was and (c) whether after a default install, I had functionality that was easily understandable and intuitive. Afterward, and using the same computers, I installed Windows XP Pro as a comparison, again, using the default "no-brainer" responses. In every case Linux took longer, required having to swap CDs manually (less convenient) and less useful from the very start. It was a disappointing experience, to be sure.

But even so, I'm determined to work through the problems -- at least now I know how to install Linux and get a baseline Apache server running.

And to think it took only about 40 hours of my time to do that... Last time I set up a Windows-based web server it took almost 2 whole hours.

A very objective text.
Anyway Linux are more stable,complet,user-friendly ,updated,helpfull,complex,dificult than any other OS.
It is true is hard to learn OS Linux,but how many enjoy when we succed!


Congratulation for the author!

Excuse me for my worse english!

Greetings! :)

Thank you so much, really, from my heart!

But, what if one thinks he shares FOSS's philosophical views and is "forced" or "pushed" to migrate because of abusive capitalistic (or other names) behaviours?

Also —humbly—, wouldn't it be nice if something like a "free, open-source version of" Mac OS X (or better) would be created/developed? (Does something like that already exist?)

I would like to say some other things, but my English is (I think so) very limited.

Well, again: Sincerely, thank you, thank you! :)

The best for you!

Good article.

Thanks for tuning me in.

I must say, this article caught my attention right away and it blew me away. I've been using Windows for the past 6 years and just about a year ago a friend of mine introduced me to Linux. He talked about it and how it wasn't the fact that it was "better", but the idea of it being an alternative to windows and about one having more controll over it, rather than windows, you get what you get, no questions asked. I will probably post something on here more tomorrow about this but I have to say, I tried Ubuntu and it was VERY different for me... Not bad, just different. It's still a challenge that I intend to improve my skills on and learn very much about. It's also an opportunity that I want to take to get myself away from what most of the world is using just because it's so "easy".

The way I see it, why not learn something new and improve it to your likings instead of having someone else say, "Hey, drink this cup of coffee because I want you to and "I" think it's good". With Linux, you can decide if you're thirsty and if you want that cup of coffee or not. It's totally and FREELY up to YOU.

It is interesting, but there are some obvious (at least to some) problems and missing concepts. It is a good read and does serve to help people understand the difference. I just have some issues as to how accurate it is.

vi is a good example. vi is what it is because it was designed back in the day of dumb terminals when you did not have a mouse or any other graphical option. Also, I have seen new users have little problems in using it, but that was back when they were not expecting something else. I suspect most people who drive today would have serious issues with driving a Model T. There are many drivers today who can't drive a manual transmission.

Some of the comments regard commercial software is also lacking since it fails to understand that companies produce software and want you to buy their upgrades. It is not perfect and often has many problems (just look at M$ products for many good examples). On the other hand, free software has no expectations or desire to try to get more money out of you and the personal reputation of the developer is on the line. They want to do a good job. Personally I think that Linux has more customer focus than then greed of M$ who seems to only want more and more of your money.

Another item is the lack of understand of where Linux came from. In a time long, long ago, there was an operating system called Unix. This was back in the days before Windoze ever existed. There were two main versions, BSD and SystemV. The creation of Linux came from the desire of Linus to have such an operating system on the PC platform, so he recreated it (so as to avoid copyright issues since BSD is public domain, but the base of which it came was not). The roots of Linux go further into the past than does any M$ product.

Unix was designed for developers, not end users. There has been quite a bit of change in this respect, but that is where it came from. It is designed to be able to put tools together, much like the lego example. You can create a "new" program on the command like by stringing together comands with pipes and conditional commands.

The real problem with switching is due to the differences. What you already know is easier than something different, even if the different item is much better.

I agree with "ghost" that some history lessons would be in order. I think it's very telling that Windows began life as a GUI for DOS and later developed the undergirding and foundation of a complete OS, whereas Linux began life as a kernel and later added the GUI and applications. Even all these years later, that kind of says it all; I suspect MS is still dealing, to some degree, with the fact that their API's were originally developed to work with the DOS kernel, just as Linux is still dealing with the fact that it was originally developed "by geeks for geeks".

In defense of zealotry and MS-hating: Zeal is a byproduct of discovering something you love, and hate is a byproduct of discovering someone wants to harm or destroy what you love. I would be fine if MS had about 40-50% of the market share and played nice with everyone else in terms of standards compliance and interoperability. But when they go out of their way to put stumbling blocks in the path of people using other software to try to squeeze a few more bucks out of me, I get mad. If I go to a restaruant and get food poisoning, I tell everyone I know not to eat there. With software, it's no different.

Thanks for the article, it's great and I consider it recommended reading for all my linux-using friends.

I'm very angry. On myself, of course. I just finished translating "old version" to Czech, just to find out that there's a "new version" which is, apparently, much better a much more reasonable than the old version. Maybe it would be good to put a notice on the old version, something like "this is old version, current version is here". Translators and visitors from Google might apreciate this very much. And of course, this is very good article.

The best explanation I have read on the point of it all. I came looking for a better "Windows". Not here. Windows does what IT does better than linux or macs or ????. Linux does what it does better than todays Windows. When "windows" was the "wild west" it too was more "fun and exciting" but excitement is not what most "users" of a home computer ever wanted. Not bad, not good, not better, just not the same.
Good luck and best wishes to each and everyone. Explore, create have fun....

Meritman (Fred)

I did a brazilian version of this excelent article and put in my personal page http://apimente-br.tripod.com/LNW.htm if anything is wrong with this please complain.

Thanks, excellent article and a good read. Wish I had that to read before I made the switch to Linux I could have saved myself a lot of embarassment. That was 18 months ago now and I have got a couple of Linux boxes and a Laptop running various distros doing more or less what I want - it has been a strugle but a worthwhile one in the end.

I never did want Linux to replace my Windows installations, I need to get actual work done at some stage, I just like pulling things to bits to see how they work.

Incidently I gave a Suse 10 box to a complete computer novice and his kids, they have never used Windows or anything else for that matter. Within months they are all better with Suse than I am, no preconceived habits and expectations to break.

Jonah

Thanks for writing that wonderful article. I've never seen specific arguments written so succinctly and with great analogies. I'll plan to use this article as a primer when friends ask me about using Linux on their own.

Dear Mr. Humphries:

Your article is articulate and your arguments cogent. It's also highly elitist to its core.

I've been a software developer for 30+ years, and throughout all of my career, I've considered it a major objective to bring computers to the non-technical community, the make them real tools that can be used as easily as you use your desk diary or typewriter (if anyone actually uses those any more.)

I've used and done development for Linux, Unix, VM/370 (remember that one?), RSX-11M, OS/2, a number of real-time operating systems and, yes, Windows.

Of all of these, Windows has come closest to achieving my objective of making the computer a usable tool to the common man. Whatever I may think about Microsoft's business practices -- and, by the way, I DO feel that there needs to be more than one software company in the world -- Gates's vision of extending the desktop to encompass the world resonates with me.

The article is definitely well done, but it reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon featuring an "old time Unix programmer," replete with beard and suspenders. The OTUP flips Dilbert a coin, and says "Here, kid...go buy yourself a REAL computer." Personally and professionally, that kind of elitism I can do without.

Since we clearly represent opposite poles in this issue, I wish we could discuss it face-to-face over a pint. Since that's probably impossible, please accept my word that I do respect your opinions and find some of your points compelling. It's the "bottom line" that I have no choice but to reject.

A. Williams

I have used and supported Windows and PCs running Windows for a very long time now. I've watched Microsoft evolve into what it is today with slowly mounting horror. it has gotten to the point where I will do or try almost anything if it means I won't have to buy and use Windows Vista. However, if the Linux community is as blatantly and unpleasantly elitist as this article implies, then I want no part of it.

So, can any of you Linux "Zealots" reading this answer this for me please: I dislike Windows as much as you do, but it seems I am unwelcome amongst you. Where would you recommend I go or spend money for an operating system that will allow me to run current games, such as Half Life 2, World of Warcraft, or DEFCON?

I've read you "why Linux is not windows" article and I have to disagree with you.

U see, just to pick from you example, not everyone who learns to ride a bike wants or could become a Superbike racer.

Many ones just want a scooter to take them from A to B with ease, comfort and style.

I mean, they don't care about carburettor stoichometrics, tire temps, drivelines and so on!

Don't get me fooled I'm in the car industry and MOST customers are THIS way!
They want something to be easy and efficient and it hasn't to be necessary to know how to tear it down for service in the garage.

Same thing for OS's. Many thanks to Linspire, Freespire and MEPIS! I think it's the way to go! Simple and stylish as it gets.

One last thing: Linux must not copy Win, it must copy the Best: Mac!
Cheers everyone!

Thank you for an excellent article. I agree Linux has a steeper learning curve, but the freedom and choice it gives the user is well worth it. I likened Linux once to an IT person I worked with as: Windows is like a car with an automatic transmission, Linux is like having a manual transmission: more to learn, more control!
I have been using Linux since Jamuary 2006 and have found some excellent resources such as the book Hacking Knoppix by Scott Granneman anf Linux Phrasebook by the same author.
My proudest day was the day I wrote my first successful cron job to run CLam AV anti-virus scanner each day at 6:00 p.m.!
Right now I am running SUSE 10.1 because that is what is run where I work!
Take care, Linux has a great community!

I Thought it was linux=Motorbike Windows=car, hehe nice article but you lost track here:
Or look at it the other way round:

Linux/cars were designed from the ground up for multiple users/passengers. Windows/motorbikes were designed for one user/passenger. Every Windows user/motorbike driver is used to being in full control of his computer/vehicle at all times. A Linux user/car passenger is used to only being in control of his computer/vehicle when logged in as root/sitting in the driver's seat.

Hope that helps you any... ciao

Hello:
I read your paper and enjoyed it very much. It is true that linux has a steep learning curve. I did not get a computer till 1995. Run win 3.1. Crashed it the first night. Learned how to fix and then found linux. Started with RedHat 4.0 I belive, and spent hours getting it to work on my old 33.
I got it to work and used both os"s for a long time. I use linux only now. I consider myself a newbe and am still learning.
I like the wide variety of os's and software that one can choose from. My hat is off to the community for even making it open to the public. I use Mepis now and like it very well. I just got my adsl modem up and running. I still don't know exactly what I've done, but when I figure it out, not likely to forget.
Thanks to the Linux community and may you keep up the good work: Utah

I disagree. There's no reason why effort and direction could (or should) not be put into producing a Linux Desktop OS product that is more compatible with, and "looks and feels" a lot more like Microsoft Windows (legal issues aside).

Microsoft has spent millions on developing the look and feel of their interface (and fighting off law suits from companies they err, borrowed ideas from). There's absolutely no shame in borrowing ideas back from Microsoft.

Both X-Windows/Gnome/KDE/Linux and Microsoft could learn a lot by looking at what Apple did with OS-X.

Nice stuff. I really enjoyed reading it. Just one tiny question: Are you (Northern) American or something? Because there are a few 'minorities' you are forgeting about:

- There's quite a few people out there who just cannot afford paying for software (or software updates because the 'almost-free' MSOffice you got from somebody in the street a few years ago is not fully compatible with the Office2003 form you downloaded from the social security website last week).
- There're also guys whose computers are so slow they wouldn't even run Windows95, leave apart Windows Vista (not only individuals also public schools, libraries, etc.).
- There's also people (that's me!) who started to use UNIX/Linux just because they needed to use certain 'technical' software that was only avaliable for such evil systems. They are professionals who don't give a fiddler's fart (excuse my french, if you can) about computers and, in fact, the only chips they are interested in are sold in 50 g bags.

I could go on for hours but I'll save you the suffering of having to go through it. The point is, there's quite a lot of people who really 'need' GNU/Linux and don't necesarily fall into the cathegory of computer's geeks or anything like that (or maybe we are just a different kind of geeks). Linux has become much more than simply hackers' entertaiment. Linux might have deep social implications. I think that's what the whole Ubuntu project is about. GNU/Linux can make technology avaliable to more people. I ignore if you do or do not care about that and, actually, it doesn't really matter. Just keep on doing your stuff and making the code avaliable at no cost. Others will do the rest ;-)

Love your article. Iv been a now long time Linux user. Ditched Windows for a good 3 years now. What you wrote is 99% truth. Very well put together. Its so true that when new Linux users who come over here are looking for Windows, but without the crap Windows does. This is not true. Any new Linux user I meet I make sure I tell them that: "Going to Linux from Windows, or any other OS, is like going from America to a different country." "We may be all humans, and have the same needs, but we all have different traditions and do things differently." Its the same as going from Windows to Linux. They do the same basic computer functions, but they do them differently. Ones about one thing for all (Windows), when the other is about choices and customization(Linux).

Another boring "go RTFM,newby!" rant from one of the Linux (or more correctly: GNU/Linux) Taliban. Need a lot of work on your analogies...read some books. It's that unhelpful attitude that will put many people off trying Linux. A very immature attitude.

Great reading!
I don't know if you're still reading these comments, but I'd like to thank you for writing this article.

I'm a fairly new Linux user (2-3 months), and after getting involved in the community forums, and contributing to some open source software that I like, I wanted to write this article, but you've done it already, so all I need now is to refer people to this link :)

Thanks again.
-soundwave-

great job!!!
i appreciate from my heart.this article is a good answer for those who compares linux n w!ndows ...
LINUX rocks!!!!

Yea Gods Man!! That article does not pull and punches, but sets the record straight.

I am cheesed off with MS. My PC has crashed, and I have now been told that I cannot install the old h/d into a new machine and carry on using the installed XP Pro OS. With Vista coming out soon, I am not prepared to fork out for the present XP OS, and the upgrade in a few months time.

Okay, I am purely an end user. Machine code is a closed book, I neither have the time, nor the inclination, to learn it. I am prepared to RTFM, and find out how to use software, provided I know that it will allow me to achieve what I want to accomplish. Is a version of linux right for me? I think so. Anyway, having read your excellent articles, and been forced to face the fact that I have been blindly lead by the hand for far too long, I am going to dive into the Linux sea, and pray that I can survive.

Thanks

john

This is one of the most interesting comparison reads that i have read in a long time. the car/motorbike comparison was especially attention-getting. thanks

The last bit of the statement: So, to avoid problem #3b: Just remember that what Linux seems to be now is not what Linux was in the past. The largest and most necessary part of the Linux community, the hackers and the developers, like Linux because they can fit it together the way they like; they don't like it in spite of having to do all the assembly before they can use it. Can't possibly be what you want to say. It's not: They DON'T like it IN SPITE of having to... I think you want to state: They DO like it PRECISELY BECAUSE of having to...

All I can say is .... THANK YOU for a very well written article