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OneAndOneIs2
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Thu, Jan 12, 2006
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The great UI debate
A number of people who've read the Linux != Windows article have argued that I'm wrong to hold the belief that Linux user interface designers are correct in considering that "making a good UI" dont not equate to "Making a Windows-like UI"
Their main argument is that, since Windows is the de facto standard, and is the UI most people are familiar with, these two are the same and it's not possible to make a good UI that works in a significantly different way from Windows.
So let's talk about Firefox. It's undeniable that FF is touted by many as an IE-killer. It's hard to name a more sucessful, well-known free-software project. It's gained many converts from MS's browser: A perfect example of a free software project that can attract new users from the Windows world.
Now then: Was it made to be identical to IE? Was it successful because it was exactly the same as the existing, what-Windows-users-are-used-to browser?
No, of course it bloody wasn't.
Exactly as I said in LNW, Firefox was not designed to be as Windows-like as possible. It was designed with the best interface the developers could make. Not the most "Windowsy" UI.
Does IE have tabbed browsing? Nope. Does FF suck because it does? No, it rocks: Tabbed browsing is great!
Does IE have a Google searchbar built in? Nope. Does FF suck because it does? No, it rocks: There are third-party add-ons for IE searchbars specifically for this reason.
Most significantly, look at the "Find" function: In IE, you bring up Find via Ctrl-F or Edit->Find. A new window appears in the middle of the screen. You type in the term you want to search for, and press return/click OK. If the term isn't found, you get an error message you have to OK to get rid of. If the term is found in the middle of the page, you have to move the "Find" window to actually see it.
In FF, you bring up "Find". A toolbar appears at the bottom of the page. As you type the term you want to search for, FF searches as you type: You don't have to OK the search. If the term isn't present, the Find dialogue turns red: You don't have to OK an error. If it finds the term anywhere in the page, it doesn't obscure it.
The way Find works in FF is utterly, utterly different from in IE. And it's all the better for it.
FF is a fantastic browser. Not because it mirrors IE and works exactly the same way, but because it is different from IE in many significant ways. That's why the next version of IE will have tabs in it: Because it's following where Free Software projects like Firefox and Opera lead. Because their *different* interfaces are *better* interfaces.
Vive la difference!
16 comments
vive le difference indeed!
It is a point that many people don't want to accept- the windows interface is not the most friendly one.
The nature of the interface should not be determined by abstract principles (eg a marketing executive's desire for a single 'look and feel'), since this, of necessity, means that the software, human or both will have to be distorted in order to make things work.
For this reason, if you try to make Linux like Windows, you'll just make it as bad as Windows.
This Linux hater doesn't even know how VI works.
As you point out in the original article first comes the commandline application (even if it's just a test app)
It's hard to make a completly unusable CUI (commandline User interface) partially because they need to be documented
However it's very very hard to make a really good GUI for anything non-trivial and the person who wrote the application isn't always the best person for it.
And by the way the German translation of http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm is very good ,too!
Yes, I agree to it but I have some "addon" thoughts.
I am a Windows user. And that is true - I want to escape from Windows. Because I am a programmer student and hobyist and sometimes I feel that some aspects of Windows needs improvements badly to satisfy my needs. At this moment only FOSS can give mee freedom to create my own desktop GUI or something like that, but create not from the scratch - many people already have done a lot of things. So I can take some FOSS desktop environment, tweak the source a bit or more and have everything as good (or as bad if I have no luck) as I need it. And then I give my creation back to the world to see if someone else needs it.
For example, I miss a Sound Volume icon, which can be used to adjust sound volume only by hovering mouse over it (without annoying clicking everytime). I often make a mess on my Desktop because I am too lazy to open the apprpriate folder when dragging items from my CD/Flash. So I feel it would be great to have a folder which senses dropping and opens a menu with the subfolders so I can drop my files in a subfolder without actually opening it. And so on and on.
ESR's rant on CUPS...?
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html
Have you any reply on this? He seems to address
many of the same points... but his POV and his
assumptions (not to mention his conclusions) seem
radically different...
- S.S.
Incidentally, on a related note, my only experience of CUPS was setting up my gf's PC to talk to her printer last year. She ran a KDE wizard and just like that, her printer was working. So it appears ESR got his wish in the years since his rant was written.
So TBH, I have no real idea what you want me to reply to. . .
It's not at all the case that they're in the exact same place as in Netscape, from which Firefox is descended, and which was in widespread use at a time when Microsoft was still dismissing the internet as a fad. . .
Nor, of course, is it the case that MS didn't design IE, but purchased it from somebody else, because they couldn't afford the time to develop their own browser when they arrived late to the party. . .
No. Of course not. Microsoft pioneered the whole web browsing experience, and those swines at Mozilla just slavishly copied them. Of course.
Perhaps you should read another of my blog posts. . .
the idea of GUI? nope... Macs/SGI had it long before I believe (and see Stanford/Xerox research as the origin)
Drop-down menus? nope... not from windows I believe
Win "Start" button... may be... here we go -- that is the one! ;-)
In any case - I would recommend next article for anyone interested in the history of GUI:
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/real-history-gui
As for the facts: Windows GUI is ancient. It has no major changes (don't through some minor things like disappearing non-commonly-used menu items) since windows 95 (which was 10 years ago BTW).
And it seems not much changed in Vista from what I've heard in rummors... And does it look very neat really? Now -- look at Xgl + compiz... http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/
most of the features are reincarnations of the old ideas to some extent but they looks very cool in action and some features (dynamicly adjustable transparencies, cube organization of mutliple desktops, reveal function to see all the windows at once, active (video is updated and playing) in your Alt-Tab switchbar, and many others) seems to be quite novel. Whatever Micro$oft can brainstorm with even 1000 highly experienced developers barely can defeat milions of enthuasists around the world giving away their ideas to open source projects... Now I'm back to reading compiz code to implement a very necessary to me feature ;-)
One small mistake: Opera is not Free Software :-)
I second that: Opera is Freeware. And a really good one :)
@all:
And you know what?
I don't care a pap if it is Free Software or not, because it rocks. I don't understand those people which only reason for not using opera is it's closed source.
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So Friday (last) started out so well, I knew it was going to be an awesome day.
I slept in (ahhh, bliss) and went for a morning walk to mail some....er...mail (because, seriously, what else can you mail? turtles?) and it was sunny and warm and I hadn't had any caffeine yet so I got myself a Slurpee. Nothing says awesome Summer day like a 10 am Coke Slurpee cooling you down in the sun.
But do you know what really tipped the morning into full-blown awesomeness? The two shirtless, amazingly hot guys who jogged past me, sweaty and gorgeous as I walked home. Ahhhhh, sugar, sun, and sexy, my own personal Summer trifecta.
I went over to where C-Dawg was staying and picked her up (so there would be no driving necessary) and we came back to my apartment, poured ourselves a summer-worthy drink and headed out on the town.
We wandered through downtown, people watching and talking and laughing and window shopping and then we headed to one of the local patios and ordered up a pitcher and some appetizers.
And that's when the real fun began.
You see, C-Dawg and I love people watching. And more than that, we love making up little stories about people and trying to guess who they are. We'd soon discovered that Friday would have to be known as "Everyone Looks Familiar Day" because I kept on seeing people that I thought looked familiar but I couldn't tell if they actually were or if I was just imagining it.
We decided that the couple next to us had just boated in on their yacht and that the guys across from us were all discussing their volleyball league's last game.
We also tried to narrow down which men C felt were too young for me and which she deemed "just right." Once we'd narrowed my age-group down to a ten year span she tested me to see if I could actually tell which guys were ok and which were in the "are you crazy, he's way too young" category.
I did not do well at this. (sigh)
As the pitcher got emptied, a table behind us became filled with a bunch of guys. C-Dawg, needing to "get out of the sun" (which we're pretty sure the guys could tell was an obvious ploy for her to be able to stare at the guys instead of having to pretend to look around and can I just say thank goodness for sunglasses and how easy they make it to check out cute guys?) sat next to me and we started to figure out the back story for these guys.
Later, C decided to choose which of the guys she'd set me up with and when she did she very kindly me that I could go out with the nice, sweet, geeky one because I'm a geek too at which point I protested until she promised she was a geek as well and it wasn't a bad thing. (Strangely enough I know what she means.)
At one point, the waiter came over and there'd been this on-going joke between the three of us because servers kept on trying to bring us food we hadn't ordered and I kept on making this dumb joke about it and then when C-Dawg told me the joke was getting old and the waiter laughed, I turned to him and said (and I quote) "Hey, I'm just going to keep saying it because it never be's not funny!"
At which point he suggested that this wasn't our first patio of the evening and I couldn't stop laughing because I couldn't believe I'd said "be's" and how as I'd said it it had TOTALLY been a word.
Ahhh alcohol, what silly things you do to my brain.
We hit up a few more places after that and went for dinner at my favourite place and then watched an awesomely bad movie back at my place. (Hi, I'm Victoria and I'm going to say the word 'place' as many times as possible in one sentence. I are a good writer.)
It was pretty darn awesome and I'm sure there's more I can think of, like how she wet-willied a statue and how she almost convinced me to give nice geek guy my number and how we sat outside the best ice cream place in town and convinced a bunch of other people that yes, they really should go inside and get a cone.
A good day, a great afternoon, a fun evening. It always be's like that with the C-Dawg. I can't wait til we get to do it again.30/07/10 - It Never Be's
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