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OneAndOneIs2

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Mon, Dec 15, 2008

[Icon][Icon]Linux & Zeno's Paradox

• Post categories: Omni, FOSS, Rant, Technology

You probably know the one: You wish to get from point A to point B. Before you can reach B, you have to get halfway there. Before you can get halfway, you have to get a quarter of the way. Before you can get a quarter of the way, you have to get an eighth.

And so on and so forth, ad infinitum.

The popular way of phrasing this one is of firing an arrow at someone running away from you. By the time the arrow gets to where he was, the target has gone a bit further on. So the arrow carries on, until it reaches where the target was, but of course no longer is. So the arrow gets closer and closer, but never actually hits the target so long as he keeps running away.

There are various ways to solve the paradoxes. You can talk about how an infinite series can tend towards a finite answer; you can disagree that there are an infinite number of points between any two points, removing infinity from the equation; you can argue that dividing time into smaller and smaller quantities in order to proportionately reduce distance travelled in each step is not a valid way of creating an infinite sequence.

Whatever. The point is the concept that smaller and smaller issues cause bigger and bigger problems as you get closer to the goal.

Which obviously brings us to Linux and Windows. Again.

More specifically, user interfaces.

There was a time when you couldn't use Linux without using the command line. That time was a long time ago. Now there are Linux users out there who've never used Bash in their lives. Why bother? Put in the latest Ubuntu CD, it installs and configures pretty much everything for you. Anything you need to do later, you can do through the menus accessed from the taskbar at the top of the screen. Install software, add repositories, change configuration settings, whatever.

Very easy to use.

Yawn.

I've mentioned elsewhere that for something to be better, it has to be different. You can't be identical and superior at the same time. Firefox didn't win a big chunk of the browser market by being exactly like IE, it threw in differences like tabbed browsing and easy extensibility to add any features you wanted. It was easy to show somebody the difference, and thus superiority, of Firefox compared to IE.

Screenshots that I used demonstrated a website "as seen with IE" compared to "as seen by Firefox" (with pop-up blocking and Adblock & Greasemonkey installed):

[Image]

[Image]

Clearly, Firefox gave a superior end-user experience. Very easy to demonstrate.

But the modern Linux desktop...

Okay, we still have multiple desktops, unlike Windows. Apart from that, though..

  • Default Windows: Taskbar at bottom, with menu button on the left, then some quick-start buttons; and a system tray on the right. A few desktop icons.
  • Default KDE: Taskbar at bottom, with menu buttons on the left, then some quick-start buttons; a system tray on the right. A few desktop icons.
  • Default Gnome: Taskbar at bottom AND top. Menu buttons on the left, next to some quick-start buttons; a system tray on the right. A few desktop icons.
  • Default OS X: A snazzy 3D-accelerated quick-start thing at the bottom, a (kind of) taskbar at the top, with menu buttons on the left and a system tray on the right.

A standard windows user who's given a demo of the above desktops will see OS X as something a bit new & different, but Linux..?

It's dull. It really is. It looks like somebody's taken Windows and tinkered with it to make it look slightly different. It looks like a ripoff. It's boring.

Okay, the 3D-accelerated stuff helps a tiny bit: Windows doesn't have the cube effect. But so what, it's only eye candy.

Yes, it's friendly and easy for just about anyone to use. I don't argue with that at all. Any moderately-intelligent Windows user can sit down in front of an Ubuntu desktop and cope without any difficulty. And that's an important factor in getting adoption up.

But.

"You never get a second chance at a first impression." And the first impression of the typical Linux desktop simply isn't as favourable as it could be. It's friendly, it's easy, it's functional. But it's dull.

And different doesn't have to mean difficult. OS X is very different, but it's intuitive and easy to use even so. And because it's significantly different, people can believe (rightly or wrongly) that it's significantly BETTER as well. It's new and different, not the tired old taskbar-driven dullness we've all had since Win95.

The Ubuntu Gnome desktop that will be most people's first experience of Linux these days does nothing to make people think "This is new and different and interesting!" It totally fails to shine.

And there's no need for it! Linux has SO MANY options to jazz up the desktop.

Gnome and KDE are so customizable. Why do new Ubuntu users get presented with this:

Ubuntu

Rather than something like this:

GnomeLook

That's another Gnome desktop - courtesy of Gnome-Look.org - and even though it's just a different theme and a couple of widgets running, it's a much more interesting desktop.

More than anything, though, we need to stop being ashamed of the command line and showing people what's "under the hood". If adesklets or gdesklets, GKrellMs, and xterms/aterms/whatever get put onto a desktop, they can make it sensationally different, and not just interesting but downright fascinating.

Those are all Linux desktops doing nothing more than running lightweight WM's such as XFCE, Enlightenment, FVWM2 and Fluxbox. They're running a few simple apps like adesklets, torsmo, GKrellM, and terminals running such standards as top.

They look good. They look different. And by showing how different Linux can be, they get people interested in those differences. We shouldn't be ashamed of the command line. It's the single most powerful application in Linux. We shouldn't assume that Gnome and KDE are the best desktops to get people interested in Linux: They make things so easy that they become boring.

We shouldn't try to be comfortable and similar to what users already know. We should try and get them interested in and excited by the Linux alternative.

12 comments

sokuban
Comment from: sokuban [Visitor]
I agree with most of what you are saying. Attracting users with a theme that looks different is better than attracting users with a windows-like theme.

But you can't suggest that the default ubuntu theme should be one of those.

I think default themes should always be simple, it is up to the user to add to the simple theme. If you had one of those above themes, you won't really know how to use the system because you aren't used to it.

I mean sure, I agree you could make the default ubuntu theme a little bit more attractive, but if you try to make it like one of those other themes you posted pics of, it would just be too confusing.

Also, did you delete my account? Because I can't log in, I can't get my password sent to me, and I can post as a visitor. (I didn't dissapear. I actually read every post up until now.)
15/12/08 @ 22:18
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
Suggest that the default should be one of the screenshots above? No, certainly not.

But the default as-is is TOO simple - it doesn't hint at any of the myriad possibilities available. It could do that so easily. With negligible increase in system demands, you could have a desktop that promises all kinds of opportunites, instead of the current drab grey & brown yawn-inducer.

Apps that put system information right onto the desktop - Linux still has that 'for IT gurus' air, a fancy system monitor in the default would fit in well with that perception. There's several shown in the above screenshots.

During the install process, you tell Ubuntu where you are located. It could easily use that information to pull things like the weather feed for your location to a desktop display. Maybe even local news, too...

Instead of two separate taskbars, you could have one double-sized one that could fit miniaturised views of the open windows into it instead of the current, boring window list that just shows an icon and some text at the bottom of the screen - hell, I could even do that in FVWM2 3-4 years ago!

You don't need, or want, a desktop that's all-singing, all-dancing. But it should at least hint at the possibility that it can be made to sing and dance should you so desire.
15/12/08 @ 22:52
Hari
Comment from: Hari [Member] · http://harishankar.org/blog/
I don't understand. This article espouses exactly the opposite of what you advocate in LNW article.

Eye-candy is what turns off many Linux users from Windows. Eye-candy that takes away too much system resources and is a memory hog (Vista style)

I think what makes Linux different is simplicity and it should be kept simple. I have always placed a premium on functionality over initial attractiveness. After all, after a couple of days, people will turn off all those visual effects to improve desktop performance.

But even with the lightweight Window Managers you mentioned above, I still don't believe that they should focus on bundling all those wallpaper and special transparency effects. Let the end-user customize...

Linux doesn't need to attract users who judge an OS by its wallpaper or 3D eye-candy anyway. Whether we use a DE or a WM shouldn't matter. What should matter is functionality.
16/12/08 @ 03:47
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
> Eye-candy is what turns off many Linux users from Windows. Eye-candy that takes away too much system resources and is a memory hog (Vista style)

The key point is "vista style" here.

I'm not talking about adding eye candy to look flashy. The rotating-cube desktop and the ability to make windows semi-transparent is pure eye candy, it's very visually impressive, but it's ultimately of no real use.

Strictly speaking, I'm not even talking about adding eye candy. What I'm really talking about is EXACTLY what I talked about in LNW: Making Linux better does not mean making it more like Windows.

The point of the article isn't to advocate Compiz being turned on by default. It isn't that the screen should be over-run with desktop widgets.

It's that we shouldn't be using the ultra-customizability of Linux to hide everything that makes it worth using.

> What should matter is functionality.

Exactly! Functionality is what Linux is king of. The power and simplicity of Gnu/Linux is what made it go from a geek's hobby OS to a multi-billion-dollar global phenomenon.

But none of that, none of it, is evident when you log into Ubuntu for the first time. It's an empty screen with a couple of drab taskbars. There's not the slightest hint of anything new or interesting.

It's like taking a Ferrari, putting a Prius body on it, fitting a rev-limiter and swapping the gearbox for an automatic. And then selling it without making any mention of the performance it COULD have, if only you change the bodywork, turn off the limiter, and refit the original gearbox. And then complaining that nobody's buying the car because it looks and handles like a Prius.

It doesn't matter that the possibility for massive performance increases are present if you don't show people that it's there. And Gnome, KDE, Ubuntu... none of them do.

You've been on Linux forums and the like a long time. How many times have you seen somebody say that they can't switch to Linux because it won't play their DVDs or MP3s? They didn't know about the proprietary nature of the codecs, they didn't know there were ways to get them installed. They just knew that they tried and failed to play their multimedia. The functionality IS there, but it's not apparent. Ergo it might as well not be there.

Multiply that up from just a couple of multimedia issues to ALL the things that Linux CAN do but doesn't SHOW it can do, and you start to wonder just how many people aren't using Linux because in trying to make it simpler, we've hidden everything that would make it attractive.

I remember reading one Linux evangelist who used to try and demonstrate how good and easy-to-use Linux was by showing people an installation with KDE. And they saw it and were uninterested: It was just like Windows. And then he'd shrug and give up and log into his usual lightweight WM to get on with stuff.. and suddenly they were interested and demanding to know "what's all that text stuff?" and "how did you make that happen without a taskbar?" and "how can you do so much so easily without using a mouse?"

The single most powerful application on any Linux installation is the command shell. I can happily get by on a Linux machine without X installed on it. Did so for years, in fact. But a Linux machine without bash? Not a chance, I would consider it an unusable OS.

What do we do with our most powerful, sophisticated, functional application? We act like it's an embarassment and hide it from the user and point out that you can do almost everything point-and-click and apologise if we have to tell a user they need to use the command-line this time.

GoToMyPC is software you can install on Windows and access your home PC from a remote Windows machine. How many new Linux users are told that because X11 is a powerful client-server GUI, they can remotely access their home Linux desktop from any internet-PC with X11 installed? How many of them are so comfortable with the CLI that they don't need X11 so long as they have SSH?

You could run a complete remote desktop using basic Linux functionality ten years ago. But people think Windows is better at it, because we're HIDING the functionality because it might be too complicated, whilst Windows has people shouting from the rooftops about the same features.

I'm not saying "We need more eye candy in the desktop." I'm saying we need to stop this catastrophic over-simplification. We need a Linux desktop that at least HINTS at just how powerful and sophisticated an OS lurks beneath the surface.

There are thousands of people all over the world adding more power and sophistication to Linux every day. But their efforts are being MURDERED by the interface zealots who take one look at the functionality we've got and throw it out the window in the name of simplicity.
16/12/08 @ 12:21
Adam
Comment from: Adam [Visitor] Email
Looking at the different comments, it seems that we don't want to scare people off with too many console looking things, but we want to be different from Windows. At the same time, we need to keep it simply for older hardware and the speed advantages that we try to pride ourselves on while showing off the customazation abilites of Linux

What would be awesome would be a GUI app that was more advanced than just the theme looks.
It could have default options for conky and adesklets and Cairo/AWN, etc. Make it an extra tab in the Ubuntu menu right next to the themes and be able to change from the basic install to some default profile with different variations and combinations of those things. Add these SUPER-themes with a click or two. Then, if the user is comfortable enough, let him tweak it til his heart is content.
16/12/08 @ 12:47
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
Adam: It could even be as simple as having a "Basic" and "Expert" option on the GDM/KDM login screens: The "Basic" option boots you to the default Gnome/KDE desktops as they are now. The "Expert" logs you in to a desktop that's more in-line with some of the screenshots above.

That way the new user can get his basic, simple, friendly desktop as per today, but is also shown that there's a lot more stuff out there just waiting for him to learn about it.

It's all about showing the potential power that Linux has without making it scary.
16/12/08 @ 13:35
Hari
Comment from: Hari [Member] · http://harishankar.org/blog/
I've written an article on FOSS just now. Would be interested to know your views on it.

I agree with most of what you're said, but I disagree that the way to address the problem lies in the user interface.

It lies purely in user education and offering all the choices to the end-user without recommending any one over the other. And in terms of desktop sophistication, again - the features all exist just slightly below the hood. I don't think most users are too stupid to understand that. I just think that they are intimidated by the idea of Linux itself and not by the UI and are rather overwhelmed by what it offers rather than be bored by its plain UI.

There's still a mystique about using a UNIX-like OS that still wins over the visual component.
16/12/08 @ 15:37
Hari
Comment from: Hari [Member] · http://harishankar.org/blog/
What I'm saying, in a nutshell, is that I disagree that simplification of the UI is causing Linux to lose its image as a sophisticated and different OS.

Most people who want to try out Linux are at least aware of the wide variety of DEs and WMs available on it. And many are at least aware of the CLI if not totally comfortable with the idea of it. What a simplified desktop gives them is at least a sense of initial comfort which allows them to explore their way through the OS at leisure. On the other hand, an ultra-sophisticated desktop can be overwhelming and drive more users away in the process. Ultimately neither approach is right or wrong - there only needs to be a choice (which already exists in most mainstream distributions). And at least KDE is far more sophisticated and configurable than Gnome and a few other WMs.

I agree with one aspect though - that Linux users don't need to be apologetic about the advanced features.
16/12/08 @ 15:42
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
> Most people who want to try out Linux are at least aware of the wide variety of DEs and WMs available on it.

I think that's where our main difference lies. Up until maybe as recently as a year or two ago, I would have agreed: People who try Linux out already have a good idea as to what it can do.

But Ubuntu's doing a good job of reaching the masses who know nothing about Linux. And with Linux coming pre-installed on high-street shops now, courtesy of the Eee and it's brethen, the chances of somebody using Linux with no prior knowledge of it are going up all the time.

We *can't* assume any more that people who use Linux know what it can do. More and more people know only what they can see on their default installation. And what they see.. it's not inspiring. It could so easily be so much better.

Picture this situation: Three PCs on display in a shop, one has Vista, one has OS X, and one has Ubuntu. All three are default, vanilla installations. A typical member of the public is in the shop to buy one of these PCs, and will base his buying decision purely on the experience he has during the minute or so he'll spend playing with each of the three machines.

Can you honestly say that you believe the Ubuntu machine will be the one he chooses? Do you really think the multitude of possibilities inherent in Linux are obvious enough to make it the one he'll want to buy?

I, personally, don't.

And if people want to see computers with Linux preinstalled on sale in the high street, that's a big problem: Why would anyone offer an OS for sale that people don't want to buy?
16/12/08 @ 16:01
sokuban
Comment from: sokuban [Member] Email
Either way, I agree with hari that education is the solution. We need to get users to understand that Linux is customizable to each own users tastes.

However recently there are lots of new Linux users who truly don't know about the possibilities. The pre installed Linux boxen contribute to this, and ubuntu does as well. I have a friend who has used Linux for a couple of months but never used the commandline. Well I think he hasn't. I was talking about how I accidentally "rm -rf /usr/share"ed the other day and he didn't get it. (He just uses the default stuff for everything and probably doesn't care. He uses Linux because his Windows broke for some reason I think.)

If one were to see those preinstalled Linux boxen at a store, it would look pretty boring. The fact that they are usually cheaper often gives an image that they are of lower quality to old fashioned way of thinkers.

Though another thing is that a lot of people (like maybe my friend) are just looking for an easy to use OS that doesn't break on them. Lots of people won't be interested in customizing their desktop, and wouldn't care how cool it looks.
16/12/08 @ 16:37
Adam
Comment from: Adam [Visitor]
sokuban, I agree that people just want a stable OS, but there can be some added functionality and flare by default to throw off those people with the old mentality about cheaper being inferior.

It's the whole first impression thing.

Then again, my dad, my wife's grandma, and my wife all use the default or *very* slightly modified ubuntu install.

I still think that the best way would be to have the option to set up a default advanced desktop. Either with an option at the login like oneandoneis2 suggested, or a tab in the appearance menu to change to the advanced, with a thumbname of what was in store.
16/12/08 @ 17:39
Adam
Comment from: Adam [Visitor]
I wonder if Mark Shuttleworth reads your blog.
He started asking for screenshots only days after this post.

http://allforlinux.com/2008/12/mark-shuttleworth-request/

Maybe this will spark some interest in our ideas here.
27/12/08 @ 16:15

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