[1+1=2]

OneAndOneIs2

« An unlikely pairI don't follow politics much »

Tue, Jun 09, 2009

[Icon][Icon]New installs

• Post categories: Omni, FOSS, Technology, My Life

So I had this computer in need of a new OS...

Ordinarily I'd have just stuck Linux on it and not given it a second thought. However, since it was a complete wipe-and-install, it seemed a good time to take a look at Windows 7.

So I downloaded the ISO (from Microsoft, you understand - it's all legal) and burned it to DVD. And off we go...

The installation environment is all graphical and fairly pretty. It's a shame MS can't take a leaf from Linux's book and make it an actual fully-live environment that you can play around with whilst you wait for the OS to install, but it's a perfectly acceptable way to install an OS.

You have to accept the EULA before you do anything else, of course. It then asks you if you want to install or upgrade an installation. Because I want to wipe the current XP install, I go with the install option. To my surprise, at this point it asks me which partition I want to install to.

Windows offering to allow more than one OS on a machine?? That's not their usual M.O... I assume it's because this is very much a test-OS, but if it makes it through into the real thing so Linux users don't have to make a boot disk and re-write the MBR just to upgrade their Windows version, I will be impressed.

It then tells you it's starting the install process, and sits at 0% for about five minutes. Don't ask me why, it just does. It then motors through the entire 100% in about ten minutes. What the hell, this is a beta, after all.. but at least in Linux I could hit Alt-Function key and find a screen that'll tell me what exactly is going on in the background..

Somewhat oddly for an OS installing from CD and not connected to a network, it wanted to install updates next. Go figure.

Despite warning me that the installation would reboot several times, it's only at the end that it asks for a reboot. Because it doesn't tell me to remove the DVD, I leave it in and because the installer is apparently not clever enough to spot that it's already done its thing, it offers to start the install process all over again.

*sigh*

So out comes the disk and I reboot AGAIN and this time it boots off the hard drive, into the next stage of the process. The display is now a rather higher-res affair. Judging by the lights in my USB keyboard constantly going off and coming back on again, I assume that the USB system is being restarted with impressive regularity. Quite why this needs to be so when there's only a keyboard and mouse plugged into it, I don't know, but I'm glad normal use doesn't power-cycle the hardware quite so much as installation does.

After about ten minutes of watching my keyboard reboot (it's quite a sophisticated keyboard) the monitor dies too, and then comes back and advises me that it's time for another reboot. I restart the machine and we're into the setup process now.

I'm asked for a username and also a name for the machine. It prompts for a password, which is unusually secure for Microsoft, and then for the product key - seems a bit late in the process to be doing this to me! It asks if I want to use recommended settings, which I affirm, and then asks me to check the time, date, and time zone settings. All are fine. At long last, we're taken to the desktop. The whole installation has taken around forty minutes - quite a long process, but a huge improvement over Vista, which I've installed a few times and know to budget hours for.

Just because this is Windows and it likes reboots, I do a restart and time it. It takes 50 seconds to power down, another 50 seconds to boot to the login prompt, and another minute to get from the login prompt to a completed login. That, in my opinion, is bloody slow for a vanilla Windows box with absolutely no services or third-party software installed.

The desktop is nicely uncluttered, a contrast to Vista and the godawful sidebar. However, the new taskbar is taking up a vast amount of screen estate and is really just big, blocky, and ugly. The screen resolution is also set very low, which it has no excuse for as the monitor supports being probed and will tell any computer that asks what settings it can run.

I set the resolution to the maximum and center the picture simply by pressing the "auto" button. The screen looks much better now: The taskbar is still too big, but at least it's a lot smaller than it was. There's not much else I can do until I get online, so I borrow a USB wifi dongle and plug it in. Windows fails to be able to run it out of the box. Tricky, as I have no driver disk...

So I use my laptop to download the driver and a USB flash drive to copy it across. Nice and easy, we're online. W7 now asks me a few networking questions and I tell it to share with the other machines on our LAN. It even gives me a password - a mixed-case random string of text. Not bad.

There are two pieces of hardware that it still has no drivers for. It's quick and easy to have it search for them online, and it successfully installs one driver. The other it is at a loss for. Since everything seems to be working, I have no clue what this non-functioning hardware IS, so I ignore it.

I grab Firefox from the web and install it. It proves laughably easy to copy my profile from my laptop to the W7 computer over the LAN - I was impressed, in fact, at just how easy it was. I was slightly worried that I was able to do the file transfer without giving any login name or password, not even the password W7 itself generated for me, but this I put down to the fact that I was using the same login name and password on both machines. That's fair enough.

Now that I have some usable software, I can start having a play with the OS as a place for actually doing things. The 3-D desktop, which I was underwhelmed by in Vista, is still not good in W7, I'm afraid.

Firstly, the taskbar is transparent. That just doesn't work when it's so damned big: It makes it look like you haven't maximised the window. If they're going to have a big, semi-transparent taskbar, they badly need to make it auto-hide by default. In the end, I had to reduce the transparency to almost nothing in order to stop it being distracting.

Then there's the alt-tab. It tries to be clever and helpful, like most 3-D desktops, and make windows see-through so you can make your selections more easily.

What makes this rather annoying is that as soon as you hit alt-tab, it makes every window vanish except for the one you would switch to. So if, for instance, you're tapping away at your blog in Firefox and then want to just check if anyone's on IM, alt-tabbing to Pidgin makes Firefox vanish and Pidgin appear. Until you let go of the alt key, when firefox suddenly re-appears behind the tiny Pidgin window.

This is confusing and inconsistent behaviour that adds nothing useful. Bluntly: It sucks and it makes me think, yet again, that MS threw 3-D into their GUI because everyone else was doing it and has no clue how to make it do anything useful. Since it's still a graphical resource hog, this just isn't on: If I need to buy an expensive graphics card for something as simple as a desktop GUI, it had better be a damned GOOD desktop GUI. Especially when I could run Compiz on my prehistoric MX400 just fine several years ago!

To make matters worse, fine-tuning the desktop settings to turn OFF the annoying effects is not easy. Not just in the expected lack of choice you have compared to things like Beryl on Linux. No. Me, who's been using Windows since 3.1 days, actually had difficulty in changing the wallpaper. They've done weird things with the "personalise" function, in an effort, I think, to tie the wallpaper into the overall theme.

So, my overall impressions?

Well, they've basically taken Vista, fixed the worst bugs, made it resource-hungry rather than resource-addicted, and given it an over-sized taskbar that tries (and fails) to look a bit more OS X-like. The 3D desktop is still laughable: It needs far too much hardware and does far too little that's useful.

If you have XP and want to upgrade, you should definitely wait until Windows 7 is available and skip Vista altogether.

If you have Vista, you should be outraged that Microsoft is trying to pretend that a set of bug-fixes is a new OS, and demand a free upgrade.

Because ultimately, that's all Windows 7 is: An improved version of a failed OS. It's definitely an improvement, but just about anything would have been. I saw nothing in it to be all that excited about. It deserves to out-do Vista, and I'm sure it will. But whether it'll be the Next Big Thing that MS hope for.. I'm afraid I still have my doubts, guys!

And since it follows on quite nicely, I thought I'd mention that, because W7 was so uninteresting, I wiped it after only a day or two and replaced it with the latest Debian release. I've used Ubuntu on and off for a few years but never used 'pure' Debian, so this was something of a learning curve for me as well.

I booted off the DVD and got a splash screen with a number of options. I chose the graphical install, and was mildly disappointed to see that, unlike Ubuntu, Debian doesn't give you a live-CD installation environment either. Sadly, the installation borked at this point so it didn't matter. I switched to another screen and checked the log: There was a report of a bad Md5. The DVD hadn't written properly. Sigh.

I couldn't find the DVD ISO and couldn't be bothered to download it again either. I grabbed the CD ISO instead and tried again. This time, no problems. It gave me an advisory partitioning scheme, which I accepted (7GB root, 1.5GB swap, all the rest for /home) and it began to format the partitions.

One thing I will say: I like ext3 and would have used it regardless, but I was annoyed that I wasn't asked what format the partition should be. Ext partitions take so damned long to set up compared to others.. at least two minutes passed before the hard disk was ready for files to be written to it!

Two minutes later, it was prompting for a root password and asking about the non-root user. It then asked me what server-y options I wanted: DNS, Samba, CUPS, etc. As it happened, I wanted ALL of them! So I checked just about every box and away it went, setting up an OS that was not only a complete desktop, but also a regular swiss-army knife of the computer world.

Less than ten minutes later, it asked me about installing grub and (unlike Windows) told me to take the CD out of the drive so it could reboot properly.

The entire installation took around 15 mins - significantly under half the time to install Windows, and for an OS that does a lot more, I might add..

I booted into a login prompt that had the correct resolution by default (unlike Windows.) The desktop was the slightly-bland affair you expect of a Gnome desktop.

(I'm sorry. I still don't like Gnome. The GUI is boring and only serves to emphasize just how hideously bad the file manager is. I really, really can't overstate just how much I dislike what they've done with Nautilus.)

Anyway..

Time to do a comparison between Windows and Debian on shutdowns, and I found the times here were:
To shutdown: 15 seconds
To boot to the login: 35 seconds
To get from login to logged-in: 15 seconds

So.. it shut down AND restarted in the time it took W7 just to shut down. That's pretty good considering Debian was, by now, running SSH, DNS, Samba, a webserver, a mail server, a print server...

Something else I rather liked was the way the screensaver allows you to leave a message: Simple, but clever! Well done for that one, Gnome devs.

I also liked that the Debian install CD had quite a few packages to install - I was able to get the openSSH server without a net connection, for instance.

However, I then had to get a net connection sorted out. So I plugged it into the router's ethernet and ran through the quick&easy GUI setup for a DHCP network. Job done.

I still couldn't install anything, of course, because apt was only set to install off the CD. So I got into the sources.list file and corrected this, and soon had everything I needed up and running, courtesy of Debian's legendary repository collection.

Including, I might add, a VNC server. Free. Which I am accessing right now from my Vista laptop courtesy of Real VNC.

If you're paying for a service like GoToMyPC, this is something you should bear in mind.

Not the crappy Gnome desktop - just the fact that I can access it from Vista, fast, easy, and completely free!

7 comments

Hari
Comment from: Hari [Member] · http://harishankar.org/blog/
I have Debian on my laptop too and I usually ditch Gnome the moment I install and get KDE.

However, KDE 4.x is a big disappointment for KDE fans, as it doesn't really add much to the KDE universe (unless you consider fancy 3d desktop-switching effects as "features").

I wish they had taken the 3.5.x series to its logical conclusion or at least kept a 3.6 branch alive. A lot of older KDE apps are missing and I miss Quanta Plus the most, as it seems that there IS no version of Quanta plus for KDE 4.
09/06/09 @ 17:31
DIon Moult
Comment from: DIon Moult [Visitor] Email · http://thinkmoult.com/
Well, I personally run Gentoo (though I have poked through Ubuntu) and that (for a first time install - subsequent installs take _much_ faster) takes 1 day up until a week to install and gives you a system with barely enough functional tools to do anything except install more stuff...and edit text files. :)

But that's the way I like it :D

I don't even bother getting Gnome, it's right to KDE for me. Less features, more features, KDE 4.x seems to be what I prefer as it looks nicer, and that's where all the dev is :)

Nice post - I had similar annoyances when trying Win7 on VirtualBox.
09/06/09 @ 17:53
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
Hari: I thought they'd fixed all the problems with the next version of KDE. Guess not! :o)

Dion: I used to run Gentoo & was very fond of it, compilation time & all. I'd still consider it for my next 'serious' desktop OS..

I'm not all that fond of KDE either, to be honest. I still rate the lightweights far higher. FVWM2 in particular.. :o)
09/06/09 @ 18:03
sokuban
Comment from: sokuban [Member] Email
I don't like gnome or KDE either. I use FVWM now. (I checked it out because I remember you used to boast about it actually.) I used to use xfce, which was lightweight enough, but not very flexible. Nevertheless, I'd use xfce if I wanted a desktop up running fast. (It took me a while to work on my fvwm desktop, and I dare not call it perfect yet; I keep improving it.)

It is lightweight and /very customizable/. (Very confusing too '_') Only thing I don't like about it is that it feels a little old fashioned. I'm not really sure how to explain it, but, for example I have trouble getting proper Indic script support on the window titlebar. This isn't that much of a problem as I rarely need to use Indic scripts, and the titlebar is a minor thing, but it annoys me sometimes. Little things like this are all polished in modern DEs like gnome and xfce; one wouldn't think of trying to set it up and it would simply be expected. (And also, the default theme/fvwm95 theme is really ugly, which probably gave me more of the "old fashioned" feeling. Oh, and another big one was the lack of real transparency support and lack of rounded corners without a patch. I don't use real transparency atm because my graphics card isn't good, but I wish they'd have it.)

But if I have to really complain about fvwm, I think it does too much. There are many great features of fvwm that aren't "wmlike". It feels like it is trying to be a whole DE but it isn't. Stuff like menus, desktop buttons/wallpaper management, etc are imo unrelated to the thing that is supposed to "manage windows".
10/06/09 @ 01:01
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
I don't think of FVWM as old-fashioned, so much as "traditional" - it's all done with text editors and knowledge of the command-line. But I know what you mean.

Desktop buttons were never a part of my FVWM, and I used an app. called qiv to do my wallpaper. I did set it to have transparent menus but I was never all that impressed by them.. Fonts definitely gave me problems from time to time though.

Mostly, I think of FVWM as being more of a programming language than a WM - you can make it do just about anything you can think of, so long as you can figure out how to. That's either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what it is you want from your desktop.
10/06/09 @ 10:31
sokuban
Comment from: sokuban [Member] Email
"Old fashioned" is just a different way to say "traditional". XD (In my eyes anyways.)

What I meant earlier with the "it does too much" thing is that I find there are lots of nice FVWM functions that are cool, but I'd just wish I could use them outside of FVWM or with a different window manager.

Also if my graphics card had working Linux drivers I'd want semi (real) transparent borders for example (kinda like Vista), but FVWM only can give psuedo transparency. :/ This is a little old fashioned no? >_<

If I'm not mistaken, they are actually working on this for the next version, but God knows when it'll come out if it ever does.
10/06/09 @ 17:13
oneandoneis2
Comment from: oneandoneis2 [Member] · http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/
Hmm.. they do have a certain amount in common, but they aren't the same. Just like "accurate" and "precise" are two very different things. e.g. Caterham's cars follow the "traditional" Seven design but there's nothing "old fashioned" about their performance - amongst the best in the world.

3-D acceleration is something that would be a very welcome addition to FVWM, as far as I'm concerned. But let's face it, 3-D acceleration in X11 is very far from mature. In just a few years we've had XGL and Compiz and Beryl and AIGLX... and maybe Xorg now has built-in 3-D support but Xorg is far from the only implementation of X11..

FVWM is all about being powerful but lightweight. I'd rather they let things settle down and then built in 3-D that really WORKS than risk winding up with something like Vista, bloated and pointless.
11/06/09 @ 21:36

Leave a comment


Your email address will not be revealed on this site.

Your URL will be displayed.
(Line breaks become <br />)
(Name, email & website)
(Allow users to contact you through a message form (your email will not be revealed.)
This is a captcha-picture. It is used to prevent mass-access by robots.
Please enter the characters from the image above. (case insensitive)
 

[Links][icon] My links

[Icon][Icon] Hmm.. new look for twitter? I hope it gets less "Ick! Change! Put it back!" nonsense than Facebook..
08/02/12

[Icon][Icon] Facebook Syndication Error
09/02/12

[Icon][Icon] I last listened to:
Johann Pachelbel - Canon in D major

[Icon][Icon] Most recent photo:
Submersible houseboat

[Icon][Icon]About Me

[Icon][Icon]About this blog

[Icon][Icon]My LQ profile

[Icon][Icon]My /. profile

[Icon][Icon]My Wishlist

[Icon]MyCommerce

[FSF Associate Member]


February 2012
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
 << <   > >>
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29        

Search

User tools

XML Feeds

eXTReMe Tracker

Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional

Valid CSS!

[Valid RSS feed]

multiple blogs